Curse

A_Muppet · Jul 16, 2006, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

<prepares for angry responses>...Why do rangers use barrage?...I am fairly new to rangering (just started 2 weeks ago, almost have lvl 3 survivor on my ranger in cantha via trapping, poison/bleeding, interrupt, strait up damage builds) and it seems like barrage is the most popular ranger elite, but I just do not see why.

For what it is (A bow attack that does extra damage) it's very good- for only about 3 energy (with 9 expertise) you do a fair bit of extra damage, even doing damage to more than one traget.

That being said, there are better elites. The Elite pet attack Ferocious Strike gives 10 energy when you have 16 beast mastery for example, punishing shot not only interrupts like savage shot, but with high marksmenship it *hurts*. Broad Headed arrow is a shutdown for spellcasters if it connects.

blakk · Jul 17, 2006, 12:52 PM // 12:52

what none of you is taking into account is that barrage is by far potentially the MOST deadly weapon in a rangers arsenal easpecially if you have factions.
ALL of the ritualist wepaon skills
brutal weapon, wailing weapon ect, STACK with barrage.
I beg of you fellow rangers to test this.
I have 9 in communing, 12 in expertist, and 16 in marks.
barrage is doing +17+11 damage right now. when i want to play rough, i use a sundering 20/20 bowstring on my hornbow.+30% armor penetration
This drops the plain warrior's armor to from 100(sentinel armor) +16 shield to 82! drops the monk mesmer ritualist from 60 armor to 42 .
so as you can see here barrage +brutal weapon followed up by penetrating attack(+19 +20% armor penetration+20% armor penetration(string)+10%(hornbow) armor penetration = spiker from hell death.

Brutal weapon is NOT a preparation, its a weapon skill and STACKS with Barrage. So does wailing weapon(interrutps attacking targets) . the key to the weapon skills is if you get enchanted it wipes out the weapon skill. also if you bring a spirit henchie he will put a weapon skill on you with will wipe out your brutal weapon. BARRAGE FTW!

Drewfense · Jul 17, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

hehe, didnt know this thread still existed. It sounds like it comes down to the ranger elites are situational and barrage is an easy one if you don't know what to expect. Still I rarely take barrage unless I know enemies will be forced into a chokehold (Ex. Eternal Grove). I like the idea of brutal weapon. I have always kinda considered Conjure Flame to be uber noobish (normally it adds 7 fire dmg...y don't you just use a vamp string and invest those points elsewhere...and just converting to elemental dmg wont help you in many places). The Brutal Weapon has a little more dmg output and permits the vamp string. The one question is the short duration of ~18 seconds.

SnipiousMax · Jul 17, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Still I rarely take barrage unless I know enemies will be forced into a chokehold (Ex. Eternal Grove).

Cantha has many places like this. More than Prophecies for sure. But I agree that this is the situation to use barrage, and you'd be better off using another elite where enemies aren't bunched so easily.

some guy · Jul 18, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Barrage is just plain simple, spammable attack.

spammable attack=good!

Jul 18, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

distracting shot, lightning reflexes, whirling defense,barrage,savage shot, troll ungent, res sig, skill cap.

thats what i use.
for pve, it works great. 2 interupts, and mass attack.

what else ya need?

now barrage in pvp? thats a nono imho.

Craze Horse · Jul 18, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

I really don't use barrage much because there are always more useful thing to bring to get you out of hard situations. Barrage is good if the mission is going to be simple, other elites are used for specfic purposes and usually work better.

Although I only use Barrage rarely, PuP's Barrageway took HoH 4 times tonight so it isn't completely useless.

markus_thom · Jul 19, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyDean

Barrage is popular because it is effective at spreading damage. You can use enchantments or weapon spells to increase the damage of each arrow. Even though each individual arrow may not hit for very high numbers, you're weakening the entire group by a very nice chunk.

Barrage also has a low mana cost and is spammable. Barrage also doesn't make monsters run, like elementalist AOE attacks do, and with a long bow you can get some very nice range.

Although you cant use preperations with it such as read the wind, so stacking up damage on a single opponent is harder.

Aisius · Jul 19, 2006, 12:38 PM // 12:38

I use escape or barrage does me fine.

Stacking on barrage can use spirits or as mentioned already elemental profession or ritualists weapon buff.

Skuld · Jul 22, 2006, 06:35 PM // 18:35

It's a nice skill, but it doesn't half get boring, think I took about all the barraging I could muster in the B/P months

Targoyle · Jul 23, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Why is everybody always saying that barrage can hit 6 foes? Barrage can hit 7 foes.

All your Preperations are removed. Shoot arrows at up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +1-13 damage if they hit.

Its actualy +17 with Marksmanship at 16.

"up to 6 foes adjacent to your target"

6+1=7

a possible 7 if you can get them to stand together to be correct.

SnipiousMax · Jul 23, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targoyle

Why is everybody always saying that barrage can hit 6 foes? Barrage can hit 7 foes.

All your Preperations are removed. Shoot arrows at up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +1-13 damage if they hit.

Its actualy +17 with Marksmanship at 16.

"up to 6 foes adjacent to your target"

6+1=7

a possible 7 if you can get them to stand together to be correct.

Its poor description, it only hits six.

Sha Noran · Jul 23, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

*Sigh

Barrage is an effective Elite that really pumps out the damage if you're in an area that is garunteed to have enemies that are all clumped up. Running it in most (or all) situations is really just a bad idea. Punishing shot in particular outdoes Barrage in 99% of PvE situations, and there are a multitude of other Elites that also are at least as useful, and in many cases more so, as Barrage.

Amy Awien · Jul 24, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Why choose Punishing Shot as an example for an alternative to Barrage? It has a nice ring to it's name, but that's about it. In the damage-department, Barrage beats Punishing Shot hands down:
PS: +18 damage for 10E every 8 seconds
BR: +13 damage for 5E every 2 seconds
Punishing Shot delivers 1.8 damage/energy, Barrage 2.6 and it can be fired 4 times as frequently.

PS offers interupting and although that is very usefull it is a completely different application ... apples and oranges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakk

.... when i want to play rough, i use a sundering 20/20 bowstring on my hornbow.+30% armor penetration .... spiker from hell death.

You forgot the part where there is only a 20% chance to get those extra 20% AP. But sundering is one of the two (maybe 3) bowstrings that are of interest for barrage (no preps). In Barrage/Pet teams the rangers use vamp strings, that should mean something.

Quote:

Brutal weapon is NOT a preparation, its a weapon skill and STACKS with Barrage.

I know, just as Cunjure-X and Judges Insight, but those can be stripped, and weaponspells not. The upkeep is rather high though, certainly when compared to preparations.

Barrage has it's uses.
Punishing Shot has it's uses.

fallot · Jul 24, 2006, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awein

PS: +18 damage for 10E every 8 seconds
BR: +13 damage for 5E every 2 seconds

Those are not very realistic figures. A ranger using Barrage or PS will have Marksmanship greater than 12, and Expertise will significantly reduce the cost of each skill. As far as dealing damage is concerned, Barrage is the superior choice even against a single foe. In PvE, I would only situationally pick any other elite. With 13 expertise, you are gaining energy while you spam barrage.

Its one of the best sources of AoE damage in the game with the additional benefit of being non-flee. Why would anyone not take this skill to PvE ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Muppet

That being said, there are better elites. The Elite pet attack Ferocious Strike gives 10 energy when you have 16 beast mastery for example, punishing shot not only interrupts like savage shot, but with high marksmenship it *hurts*. Broad Headed arrow is a shutdown for spellcasters if it connects.

All three of those elites pale in comparison to the amount of damage a barrager will put out in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

The range on barrage seems to be minimal, less than that on an elementalists fireball or rodgorts.

It is significantly greater, depending on the bow you use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Even firing into fairly compact groups it seems that I can never get more than 3 enemies at a time.

Why is this a problem ? It deals a significant amount of +damage anyway. Even hitting two enemies you'd be pumping out more damage than any ranger attack skill I can think of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

This is especially true since there are no longer aggro items to assist in clumping the enemies close enough. Then the damage is ok...but I think an ele would punch out more dps (if the arguement goes this way, I will do the calculations tonight and see).

Elementalits cannot even come close to the damage output of this skill. Their AoE also causes monsters to scatter, making Barrage even more superior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

So if you haven't seen it coming, my question is why not bring another elementalist over a barrage ranger? I know when I am putting groups togethor as a monk, I never bring a barrage ranger any more.

If I am putting a group together for efficient PvE, it will never contain an elementalist built for dealing damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

The best reasoning I can think of is that you are sacrificing dps for having party member with higher armor and hopefully (definitely unlikely in a PUG) able to interrupt a rez/troll/heal sig. I am sure someone will argue longevity since with a zealous string you can barrage forever, but the same can be said for an ele if the ele has proper energy management. Regardless, going the zealous string route will only reduce the damage since you can't use a vamp, making barrage less effective.

As I mentioned before, you are gaining DPS by choosing the ranger. As far as longevity is concerned, with 13 expertise you can spam barrage forever (you gain energy while using the skill, though probably not with an IAS stance). You do not need a Zealous string on a ranger in almost any situation, expertise makes up for everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Barrage certainly has its place such as in PvE tombs because it effectively thwarts Fingers of Chaos, but I do not see much use for it elsewhere. Why not take Melandru's Shot, a beefed up power shot that will give you infinite energy in some areas. What about one ranger running Melandru's Arrows and another with Apply Poison - now everyone has -8 degen. Broad Head Arrow with interrupts is an easy and very effective build to run. Hell even Ignite Arrows with Quick Shot.

Barrage is not effective in tombs just because of Fingers Of Chaos but because of the amount of damage it puts out. Haven't you noticed that barrage groups (even though the ones there are mostly horrendous) literally tear through each zone ?

Apply Poison + Melandru's Arrows is good, but why use it against AI that will graciously clump up for you ? Still, its not bad. In fact, XoO's ladder team used to run this in GvG IIRC

Broad Head Arrow is not a good skill.
Melandru's Arrow is not a good skill.
Ignite Arrows with QS deal less damage than Barrage and causes scatter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drewfense

Instead of just raging since you love barrage, defend it. You can call me a newb if you want (since technically I am to being a ranger), but then atleast explain your point.

I actually don't love Barrage. I just bring it so that I can be a contributing member of a PUG rather than some random dude running his original build. Tell me this much, do you run with 16 marks and 13 expertise when you use this skill ?

btw, <3 Shhh, always fun to watch.

Mera Regila · Jul 27, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Recharge for ele AoE skills are alot longer than Barrage's 1 second recharge, and energy cost is higher. Barragers often use Barrage/Interrupt in their build. Using Concussion Shot and Savage/Distracting Shot, they can effectively keep nuker Elementalists out of the way while effecting other skills. Elementalists have no other interrupt than knockdown from certain skills, which can only interrupt when they get lucky.